This is the Simply Home Podcast - Ladies Who Build, a podcast for women by women.

This is Ashley Wainscott and Michelle Mullins.

After spending the last 10 years revolutionizing the construction industry and raising the bar of the contracting world.

We are inviting you on our journey as we continuously learn how to be extraordinary and thrive in this industry.

Now, come hang with us.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (00:28)

All right, welcome to season three, episode 32 of Ladies Who Build. We are extremely excited to be talking to you about permits. It's one of our most favorite topics. And Michelle and I have quite the knowledge and expertise on permits. So we will be sharing with you today a few things.

One of them being considerations for pooling permits. We want to go in-depth talking about what we recommend to homeowners and clients when looking at pooling permits. And then we'll move into commercial versus residential permits and the different types of permits. And we will shift down into how to apply for permits. We'll talk through that and our steps that we take and we'll hit a little bit on talking about permit expeditors and I realized they're not just here in Austin, Texas so they're accessible throughout the nation and lastly we'll go through the whole inspection process and talk through everything that that brings to the table. You ready Michelle?

MICHELLE (01:46)

There's a lot.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (01:49)

All right, here we go. All right, so we're going to go into considerations for pulling permits.

MICHELLE (01:55)

So, okay, some of the things to consider if you don't understand or are on the fence about pooling permits. So basically, like in a very high-level nutshell is when you pool permits with the city that you're in, you are basically saying that you're opening up the project for inspection, you are gonna make sure that everything's done up to city code, and state code, and the city is going to essentially kind of guide your GC or builder along to make sure that they're like, following the code and calling out anything that needs to be fixed or done again.

And what's nice about having a permitted project is that if you ever go to sell your home, you can tell your buyers that, yes, we did this addition and it's permitted, so it's all good to go, right? Kind of gives the buyer a little bit more ease knowing that it was done up to city code. With that, if you don't know anything about the… Austin city code process or inspection process, it is notorious, how do I put this nicely? It's notorious for being one of a kind. There is no other city like the city of Austin when it comes to permits and inspections. And even like large cities that we are around like Dallas and Houston have a way simpler process than we do. So long story short, our process in the city of Austin is,

Painfully slow. I think they're actually doing a lot to work on it. I have seen some improvements and I think they're trying to build in some new technology with it, but it is notoriously been slow and people dragging their feet to get it across the finish line.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (03:33)

Yeah, you should plan for it to take, well, for a building permit at this point in time, you should plan for it to take in their slow period of summer, anywhere from four to eight weeks to get a building permit. And four weeks is the best possible outcome. So you should plan for closer to eight weeks. And because...

MICHELLE (03:56)

Yes.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (04:00)

We'll go into more of like this process later, but you're always going to get comments back from the reviewers who are reviewing your request for the permit. And these comments are things that you just can't predict that they're going to want. You're going to guess and you're going to put as much as you can in your plans and your permit application because you don't want to get any comments back.

Because it then sends you back into the queue, right? And then you have to go back through the queue of waiting for permits again. It's not like they immediately just stamp it off and say, great job adding that, you're ready. You go back into the queue of waiting. So long story long, the timeline is there. And that's just the timeline from when you submit the permit. So,

MICHELLE (04:33)

Mm-hmm.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (04:56)

In our process and probably a lot of people's processes, other remodelers in general, we start working on permits from the beginning. We start conversations with homeowners and clients from the beginning because when we do need to pull permits, we need to be preparing and collecting that paperwork and making sure you have everything initially so that we can submit for permits.

And not let it slow our process down because once we submit that, I was just talking about two months of waiting, right? So overall, it's gonna take at least three to four months of putting it all together and waiting.

MICHELLE (05:39)

Yeah, and I think it's a good point. We've dealt with people, homeowners that have decided to pull permits after the fact. It can be done, but that is a big ol' just stick in the mud part of the process because you now like you're saying, is you have to stop what you're doing. You have to get all these documents together that you might not necessarily need otherwise, which is gonna take time. You have to outsource all that. Then you have to submit, and so, yeah it’s possible.

That you've just put your whole project on hold and that just for us personally, like for our team and for our processes, we now have to pull that project management team off of your project and put them on another one and that just causes additional costs, right? So it is really imperative when you are saying really think about it and ask questions of like what's the pros and cons ahead of time and if you don't know, just think on it until you know, it's okay, right? Like think about it and decide.

But definitely do it at the beginning. Because it's already an add time to your project. You don't want to add more time halfway through. And I think for people that don't understand the difference, I mean, I guess for cost-wise, what would you say would be like a roundabout cost roughly if you were to pull permits? Like what is that at?

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (06:57)

So, I mean, when working with us, it adds.

At least four to five thousand and that includes permit fees it includes our time for putting together all the permit information reviewing documents and really it includes because permits

Take almost a month extra on any project because of the inspection process. It includes that time of your project being on our radar for an extra month of construction alone.

Right. And we always hope it's going to be more like two to three weeks. But I mean, Michelle and I have seen it where inspectors haven't come out. You know, you make a request and they haven't come out for three to four days or a week. Right. Sometimes in best case scenario, you'll request an inspection and they'll come out the next day. But that doesn't always happen. So it definitely adds cost to, to your project.

MICHELLE (08:08)

Yeah, it does. But again, it's like, what's the cost worth and like, what's that piece of mind you're getting when you pull permits? And there's obviously penalty if you were to get caught by the city not having permits. So that can look different depending on the scope of work that we're doing. But, you know, if you, if a city inspector finds we're doing work on permitting, they'll shut down the project and make you go through that whole process. They'll issue you a fine. And so you're kind of just at square one again.

So it's not great, you know. But I will say, if you're, so permits are required really, if you're just starting updating, like let's say you're just like putting in new plumbing fixtures where your old plumbing fixtures were, you don't need a permit for that. But if you are moving plumbing from let's say one wall to another, or even if you're shifting it, then you do need a permit for anything you're moving with electrical, plumbing, or especially like a load-bearing wall.

If you have something that you're opening up a space and it is low-bearing, then you do need to submit requirements for that. And really it's just ensuring that the city is making sure that whoever's doing the work doesn't make your house fall down.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (09:17)

Yeah, I mean, ultimately they're responsible for making sure, you know, the city is safe and homes are safe. And the positive is it also when we're talking about these considerations, the possible or possible.

Hello, pregnancy brain. The positive piece of this is that the city is taking on liability, right? By coming in your home and inspecting these things, they are taking on some of that liability. And that peace of mind for you can be very relieving of like, this inspector did come.

They double-checked everything right so even if you do hire you know a remodeling firm like ours, where you know we're going to do quality work you still have. Not I mean yeah third set of eyes, you have the subcontractors you have the. Our construction managers and project managers and then you have inspectors so it's a third set of eyes that can give you peace of mind.

MICHELLE (10:24)

Yeah, yeah and it's worth it to you I mean it's just a it's a lot for a homeowner to do that process on your own so you definitely want your GC doing it and we'll talk about permanent expeditors here in a minute but it's even more beneficial to have them do it because it's just it's a lengthy process and you want to try to speed it up as much as you can.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (10:45)

Yeah, and we actually just had a client the other day decide they were going back and forth on what exactly they wanted to do, but they made their decision of their scope of work and decided to pull permits. And I think they were so relieved with that process of doing it early on.

Right and working their way through the documents because if you think about it, not everybody has a survey of their home. Not everybody has the trees documented on the survey of their home and

you know, then by the time you submit all the paperwork and stuff, it's just, it's a, it's a task on top of everybody's already busy lives. But permitting is required by the city. So working with a remodeler that knows the ins and outs, and we'll get into that here in a second, but, yeah, so there are, we might as well dive into it. There are two types of.

departments when it comes to permits, there's commercial and then there's residential. And residential, we pull both types of permits because condos, when we work in condos, even though...

It's someone's home, it's their residence, it's considered a commercial permit, and has different codes. So we pull both commercial and residential permits. And when you're working in, I mean, even like a townhouse subdivision, a lot of those are commercial properties. So those codes and restrictions, you know, such as a fire code or sprinkler,

Code or things like that that normally wouldn't apply to a residential. It's a residence, but it's commercial. So those two types of permits do exist.

MICHELLE (12:40)

Yeah, right, yeah, that's important to know. I mean, and you can pull Express permits. And I'm, the Express is, I feel like some people argue, is it even faster than a normal building permit? Because I think some could say that it's the same timing and they do cost a little bit more, I think. But you can, that's like if you're just doing kind of simple upgrades, right? That's not like a full-fledged remodeling.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (13:06)

Exactly. The express permits is if you're, yeah, like swapping out the plumbing fixtures, if you're swapping out electrical fixtures, things like that that are a little bit more in-depth. And I mean, on top of that, you can also just pull an express and an electrical permit or an express and.

A plumbing permit sometimes we can just pull trade permits depending on what we're doing But yeah, the express permits are supposed to be with something that you can get turned around within the same week So and you really don't need plans for them You can even like sketch something up really it's supposed to be really simple, but You know, they still require the same amount of inspections.

MICHELLE (13:47)

You just need a scope of work.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (13:56)

It's not like the express permit may be easier to get, but that you still have to go through all the same inspections. So as far as like cost and timeline, that doesn't change a whole lot on construction.

MICHELLE (14:01)

Right.

MICHELLE (14:09)

Yes, and yeah, I think if, obviously whoever you're working with, your GC is gonna explain the difference of those two and like what you need specifically, so don't feel like you need to understand the differences between the two, but just to show that there are different types where you live will vary on what you're meant to be.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (14:30.)

Yeah, and then when you dive into how to apply for permits, Michelle, we've had a handful of homeowners pull their own permits.

MICHELLE (14:42)

Which I find interesting because I, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like back in the day it was only your GC or your builder that could pull them. I mean, technically, a homeowner can pull it, but you have to tie them to a builder or a GC that's registered in their system, right? So it's, I guess you can. In my opinion, it slows things down because there's a lot that you have to do in the portal. And so if,

The chain of command is like, we need to do this, but I don't have access to the permit because it's in the homeowner's name and they haven't assigned it yet to us. Then they have to go do it and then we have to wait on the homeowner to do it. And so it's not to say that you can't, but I think it could slow it down.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (15:26)

Yeah, I remember it being slower and clunkier because there was education needed on our part to educate them on how to do it. And then like, what was next, right? They'd be like, “Hey, is this normal?”, they said this, or “Hey, is this a part of this?”. They said, right, so we were almost like in a consultant advising role, even though

That service wasn't part of our package. So I really would advise letting the experts pull the permits, right? I wouldn't even, don't even dive into it, especially because when you get comment reports back, you're thinking, I don't know what IRC codes are, or I don't know what they're talking about with, you know, these HVAC things or electrical things, just let the general contractor handle it.

Because homeowners then have to get other parties involved and it's just, it's confusing.

MICHELLE (16:28)

Right, I think it's a little bit of a bottleneck in my opinion, but I guess to each their own. So, all right, what are the documents then you need to pull a permit?

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (16:41)

Yep, so you need the homeowner authorization letter, which allows us slash any expeditors that we use to pull permits on your behalf because technically, technically.

We're pulling permits like on your home, right? You need a survey. You may need a tree survey noted. You may need, if you're doing anything to the exterior, you may need exterior photos. And depending on the scope, you'll need some sort of architectural plans. Again, depending on the scope, if it's...

More of a cosmetic bathroom upgrade. You won't need elaborate plans, but you need plans. And then you need a structural letter if you're removing anything load-bearing or non -load bearing framing wise, or if you're changing window sizes, anything that affects like the structure, interior, exterior of the home.

MICHELLE (17:48)

Yeah, I guess that's right. I forgot that you needed an engineer letter. If it's not load-bearing, you still need an engineer to sign off that that wall can be removed. Yeah, I forgot about that.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (18:01)

Yeah, they changed it a few years ago. And I remember we were all in awe that we, every homeowner has to pay a structural engineer to come out and confirm that it's non-load bearing because, you know, the city didn't want that liability.

MICHELLE (18:18)

Yeah, that's the good old city of Austin.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (18:23)

Yep. Yeah, they didn't want that on them. They're like, you take that. Thank you. Which like, I mean, to some degree, I get because they these inspectors didn't go to school to be structural engineers. So they're like,

MICHELLE (18:37)

Yeah.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (18:40.998)

You know, they're like, I don't I don't want that weight of the home on me.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (18:44.39)

So it makes sense, but for small little things you would think there'd be, I don't know, you would think there'd be clear, like for these little things that are clearly non -structural, you know, they don't need a structural engineer, but no, it's just, I mean, in this way, they're black and white.

MICHELLE (19:07)

Mm -hmm. Yeah, that's true. There's no second-guessing. I mean, obviously, that's a big deal, the structure of your home, so nobody wants to like assume on that.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (19:15)

Nope, nope. And honestly, Michelle and I, I mean, you know, we took this approach from day one because we weren't expert framers. So we just always had a structural engineer look at it. Even if they weren't on site, we took pictures and videos because we didn't necessarily want to just trust a framer that was saying like, oh yeah, yeah, that's fine. That's fine. And I'm like, Is it fine?

MICHELLE (19:46)

Yeah, that's true. I mean, yeah, I guess we acted in the same way that the city's acting.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (19:52)

Yeah, because we were nervous. We were like, I don't. I mean, that's nice that you have 20 years of experience, but like, did you think through everything? I don't know.

MICHELLE (20:00.767)

True. So maybe it's a win-win.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (20:05)

You know, yeah. But yeah, I mean, it really. You know, we also don't have homeowners pulled their own permits through when you use our service because you have to set up, you know, a specific account through the city. We have our account already set up. We have it to where, you know, we can get our permits smoothly. We can pay online.

Everything is set up and managed in that capacity. And even when we pull our building permits, we have to pull mechanical plumbing and electrical on top of the building permit. So it's not all-inclusive. And Michelle and I have also learned that if you don't pull those initially, that it causes the whole project to get delayed.

Because the city will then like pause everything and it takes a week or two to get a mechanical permit added on. That was the one when codes changed, Michelle and I had to be like, okay. So now we need mechanical permits for like all bathrooms or kitchens anytime you're doing any venting work. And yeah, so you need to pull those correct permits correctly.

Because also if you put a mechanical permit on a building permit and you don't need it, it will also slow you down. So like you need to know whether or not you need it.

MICHELLE (21:31)

Yeah, and that's just like proof. Don't pull your own permits. Basically what we're saying is just have us do it.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (21:35)

Right?

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (21:40)

Yeah, in layman's terms, I don't do it.

MICHELLE (21:45)

Yeah, I mean, so we also are talking about permanent expeditors and I think I've used permanent expeditors. We still do it all the time. I think it's nice because they have a little bit more insight as to like things that they might be, the city might call out ahead of time because they could be working on previous projects and they might say, I just got called out for this. Let's make sure we have this on the plans. Right. And so it might be something we don't even think about. So they can call that out. And then if,

During the submission phase and we get it back and they say we want you to adjust xyz that permit expediter knows how to do it really quickly and knows the source to get that information not to say we don't either but it might be a first -time thing that they've called out that we haven't dealt with before and so then we just have to kind of do our due diligence to learn about it which is fine but again takes more time so the cost of a permit expediter in my opinion is worth it it depends on the product if you're doing something larger versus smaller.

But I think that it also, it just speeds up the process. They just have more knowledge than we do because that's what they do full time all day, every day, you know?

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (22:54)

Yeah, I mean, they're an expert. They know what they're doing. And it's nice that they can review everything all together and point out like, oh you really need to note this on your plans, or, if you're doing this with your scope of work, the city has been wanting to see this more often. They know what they're doing. But Michelle and I have also been through our permit expeditors that...

MICHELLE (22:58)

Mm -hmm.

MICHELLE (23:15)

Yeah.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (23:22)

Don't know what they're doing and that are really slow. So, you know, use a permanent expediter that truly does know the city process. They understand construction and they are quick to reply because a lot of permanent expeditors weren't the best communicators that we've worked with.

MICHELLE (23:25)

Yeah as well.

MICHELLE (23:42)

Right so, It's like if you're gonna be expediting this process, your communication needs to be expedited. Yeah, no.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (23:53)

Yeah. You need a training on communication, expedation. I don't think that's a word, but expediting.

MICHELLE (24:00)

Why don't we? Yeah.

on the expedition process. Yeah.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (24:04)

Yes, the expedition process. We sound so knowledgeable.

MICHELLE (24:11)

Yeah, totally. We know what we're doing.

Okay, so now you've pulled permits, you've gotten them approved, we're ready to begin demo. What is that experience going to be like for you? So there's a few things within that. You wouldn't hire a guest, you obviously have a project manager, you have a project management team. We try to meet inspectors at the property every time they're being called out to the property.

That is not always the case because they'll show up sometimes unannounced. They won't give us a day and time that they're stopping by even though we ask. And sometimes they'll just show up. But the goal is to always meet them because if they call out anything, we want to make sure we understand what he's or she is wanting in that area. And so then we can adjust it really quickly. And of course, if they have questions about the work, we can be there to answer it. So I think, I mean, and I don't.

Remember back in the day where if the home was occupied, the homeowner couldn't be there? I don't know if that's still a thing.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (25:12)

I don't think it's a thing, but I think the inspectors like to know if they'll be there and something about like them doing an extra notification. Like they almost wait for, I think they wait for the project manager or construction manager to be there if it's occupied.

MICHELLE (25:17)

Yeah.

MICHELLE (25:34)

Right, okay. Yeah, I never knew. That was always tricky. And then if it was vacant...

They want to do their, I don't know. Sometimes they want you there, sometimes they don't.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (25:46)

Yeah, it's confusing. It's almost like based on the inspector, you know?

MICHELLE (25:51)

Okay, so that's a really good point because based on where you're located in the city, you will have a different inspector that is like kind of designated to your zone. And okay, with that being said, you can get, we obviously don't pick our inspectors, but you can get a really phenomenal inspector who communicates, he answers the phone, he answers your questions, like just great to work with. And then you...

could get other inspectors that are the complete opposite of that and you just have to figure out what they want. They like refuse to answer their phone. I don't even know how they have a job, but that's how they operate. It's tough because that can also slow us down a little bit. If their notes are really vague and we have to get clarity, then we have to like call the city and call his manager and get clarity of what he wants versus picking up the phone and calling the inspector straight up. So,

When you get a good one, that your project keeps kind of moving along and flowing, I will say during this process too though, you open up your home for inspection. So not just where we're working, you basically are saying, because I'm allowing inspector in my home, he can walk around and tell me other things that are not up to code. And it's not because we asked, it's because they just can.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (27:10)

Yeah, and Michelle and I have been through this so many times, the different stories of, you know, inspectors walking through the home and even though we're working in this space, they see something in this other space, which now the homeowner is required to bring up the code for them to pass us at final inspection. So scope creep can happen when you're permitting.

And it's just an expectation we like to set with homeowners. We do as much of it as we can as far as due diligence goes early on. That's why we have our measurements and layout on site. We have our CAD on site. We have our vendor on site. And we do things where we're bringing our vendors to fully review everything because we're...

you know we're looking in the eyes of an inspector as much as we can but the codebook is open to interpretation by inspectors there's a lot of things that are gray areas so even if we even if we memorize the whole codebook which like god bless America i don't know anybody that knows the entire codebook maybe the maybe the inspectors do

MICHELLE (28:27)

Yeah.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (28:29)

But, you know, for us to one, memorize all that, but two, try and guess how they interpret the code book. I mean, there's so many interpretations to it.

MICHELLE (28:42)

Yeah, there are. And that's also what's tough. So an inspector can say one thing about your work, another inspector can say another. And to be honest, it's just what they, it's, I mean, you could of course challenge it. We have challenged it before.

But at the end of the day, the inspector's gonna see what he wants to see in order to pass it. So we always have a running joke. It's like, you always wanna wine and dine the inspector, so we never wanna make him upset. We always wanna answer his calls. We wanna just be super nice and friendly because they can dictate how your project's gonna go. And so we're always jumping head over heels to just impress them and be nice to them and accommodating. So.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (29:21)

Yeah, whatever you say, whatever you want to do. But of course, we can't wine and dine them because you can't bribe city.

MICHELLE (29:26)

Yeah.

MICHELLE (29:30)

Yeah, too bad he can't.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (29:32)

City employees. I know Michelle and I have wanted to over the years, but obviously we don't. We've thought about it because we're like, and honestly, I didn't even realize that it was a form of bribery until we were like, here, thank you so much. You know, thank you so much. Here's a little gift or here's this. And they're like, I can't, I can't take that. You know, right. And I'm like, well, I'm not bribing you the project's done or.

MICHELLE (29:36)

We thought about it.

MICHELLE (29:54)

Yeah, I know. Yeah.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (30:01)

you know, whatever, but I didn't realize that was even a thing. So I can't do that. So now we just have to hit him with our smile. You know?

MICHELLE (30:06)

Me either.

MICHELLE (30:14)

Yeah.

Yeah, I think to understand what the process is like as you're going through it is, so there's multiple rounds of inspections that you go through. And I'd say definitely the first half of those take the longest because that's when your house is open up fully, down to the studs, they're noticing some additional things they want fixed. That process just can take a while because we're just as we're adjusting as the inspector goes along.

And then once you're halfway through, what is it, drywall? Then it's really fast. Like when you're starting to see everything come together, you've got cabinets going in, appliances, floors, like that's where you're really trucking along. And then you just have a final inspection at the end. So it's a way nicer.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (30:58)

Yeah, and honestly, I think the hardest ones to get through are the roughen of like plumbing, mechanical, electrical, and then the final. To me, I think those are the two hardest because some inspectors don't tell you initially what.

what they're going to fail you on at final, even though they know from the very beginning. So, right, there could be several things that they're like, yeah, well, I saw that early on, but it doesn't, it doesn't come up for me to fail you until the final. And I'm like, okay, but you could have told me anywhere in this process, right. And then the rough and is hard just because again, like,

MICHELLE (31:38)

Yeah. Yeah.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (31:41)

They wanna see things done in a particular way. And it's not to say that the plumbers, electricians, or HVAC specialists don't know what they're doing, but sometimes, I mean, sometimes genuinely they should have done things correctly, but other times it's like a matter of preference. So you sometimes fail them.

MICHELLE (32:03)

Yeah, yeah, or it's code changes, like code changes for electrical every two years. So if an electrician is doing something, I had an inspection recently and the electrician was like, that's so weird he called that out. That's never been a code requirement before. And so he had to go back and fix it. And so that must have been maybe one of the code updates that the electrician didn't get. And I will point out, I, homeowners have said this a lot and I think it's a good point to address because,

We understand that you're paying us to go through that process and understand that process. And you want to make sure your money is being spent wisely in that regard. But I've heard homeowners say, well, shouldn't you know that ahead of time? Why are we even failing? Shouldn't the GC understand and catch it eforehand? And I will say, no matter who you work with, anyone, any GC, there is no way to know the full code. We have learned a lot over the years of what previous codes are.

We can adjust and fix as we go. But like we just said, code is constantly updating. So something that we might think is code from two years ago may no longer be something. So it's really impossible for a GC to know the full code. All we're here is to guide you to get the resources needed to answer the questions, to ask the questions, to get the process moving along. So we don't ever claim to know all the answers.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (33:27)

No. There's no way to memorize that whole codebook.

MICHELLE (33:33)

Yeah, it's part of the process when you pull the permit. So I think in the end it's worth it, obviously, but just know that that's what it does entail throughout. And it's just going to happen no matter what. Like you are going to get a failed inspection that is 100 % part of the process. We have GCs that have been working in Austin for 50 years and they still fail inspections. Like that's just part of it.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (33:56)

Yeah, and it really is so many variables because remodeling is so unique and we're not just building the same home over and over again that there's so many variables of how previous work was done and how it's also tied into our work too. And.

MICHELLE (34:05)

Right.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (34:18)

I challenge you to go try and read the whole code book and then you tell me how fast you get through that because that is a tough read and it's not and again, it's a lot of gray areas. So it's like if this happens then if this is applicable, then this is over here. Then you would apply this and so it you can't you can't memorize things like that, right? Because you have to look them up.

Per situation and know, okay, well, that's not applicable. So I'm going to move to B and B is not applicable. but C is, you know, and so it's just, yeah, it's code, it's codes and inspections. They are, they are something that we're after doing this for 11 years, we are an expert in for sure. But it's impossible to know everything about it.

But we will know more than average Joe.

MICHELLE (35:13)

Yeah, I bet we know more than you. That's good. You want us to?

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (35:18)

That's yeah, that is good. Okay, anything else with permits that we need to dive into?

MICHELLE (35:26)

I think we hit the high notes. Obviously there's probably a lot of questions you may have around permits, so we are here to answer those. We're here to be a resource. We're here to introduce you to whoever we need to to get your projects moving along. And even if you just need to talk about, should I pull a permit? I'm thinking about it. I don't know. I can't decide. We can help you with that decision. So there's a lot to it, and that's kind of just the tip of the iceberg, really.

ASHLEY WAINSCOTT (35:49)

Yeah, that's all for today. Thank you all for listening and Michelle and I will be back next time with more juicy information.

MICHELLE (35:53)

Until next time.

MICHELLE (36:03)

Adios.